Curse

Scary · Mar 25, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

I know they have said NO. But I was wondering what everyones opinion was on why. Would you prefer to run with 7 heros if you could? What reasons would you not?

My reasons for:
There are times when it is very hard to get a party. Henchmen often just dont cut it for certain quest, and I can never seem to find a person to help. (Fire and Pain) Henches often do not have useful builds, charge as an elite is not so good.

My reasons against:
It could cause overpowered teams, & heros and one player, with 8 pets, and a MM, so 16 member team +10 minions = 26 member team. It would over simplify certain areas. Getting Norn/asura/dwarf/ebon points would be a lot easier to grind and they arent that hard now. (course that could be a reason for as well)

ok your thoughts.

~the rat~

The reasons for YES....Agree

The reasons you say NO...ARE YES TO... Why

There are already overpowerd teams... 600/smite duo, Ursan all over the
place, and so on.

So 7 hero's is just more fun for those who wants to play GW as a rpg.
Who dont care's just keep playing as they are.

Kamatsu · Mar 25, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Please keep it civil, polite and on topic.

Gun Pierson · Mar 25, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

There are 3 counter arguments from the quote earlier in the other thread (which was closed by that Ryker mod who jumps in, thinks it's a QQ thread about Ursan, and closes it, modpower ftw lol): On the bright side, we can further discuss in this topic and team up in here

1) balance
2) social interacting
3) infrastructure

At the time I made the other thread I thought the imba argument was the only one. I don't see balance and infrastructure as a problem anymore and what's more: I almost always play with real life friends since we started with prophecies' release. I don't pug in general except for DoA HM full run as we're not with enough in our guild. As a matter of fact we're only a few friends and we play in pairs of 2 men + 6 hero teams most of the time. Before Nightfall it was 2 men + 6 hench most of the time for the exception of the occasional pug back then.

Now we have dozens of synergy builds for 2men/6 hero teams and it's fun to play them and experiment etc. But when my other friends are not online (they're more casual players in terms of time), I have to loose the synergy builds and take 4 hench. No prob, I played through the 'whole' dam game in HM with those hench noobs. It was frustrating at times to the point the fun was gone, but I did it as well as many others I'm sure. No pug forming groups were around most of the time btw.

If they allow 7 heroes, I will still choose to play with my real life friends over 7 heroes any day, cause it was actually one of the main reasons we started playing GW, the coop play amongst ourselves, while avoiding pugs whenever we can. The prob arrises when they're not online. So the social argument has no effect on us.

Chacheena quote: 'The social argument doesn't apply to you? Well, sorry, but they didn't design the game with just you in mind'

What do you don't understand about my last sentence, where I say the social argument has no effect on 'US' as in me and my friends, which will apply to lots of peeps who play this game. 2 men 6 hero teams are common as stated by the devs.

romeus petrus · Mar 25, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

The only argument against 7 heroes is that it would probably put an end to hench. Maybe make it exclusive to HM?

Cacheelma · Mar 25, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Because you can't use "it doesn't apply to me" as an argument to get something?

They don't feel like allowing 7 heroes probably because they want to make sure people HAVE TO team up in order to do some difficult stuff (elite areas or whatever), and also to make sure that NOT EVERYONE can steamroll through the game SOLO (without any social interaction). Saying that "I'd still team up with my friends even if I can use 7 heroes" doesn't really mean anything to them.

Since this is my first post here, let me clarify that I want to use 7 heroes as well. But I don't see it coming AT ALL unless Anet drops the whole "People should play cooperatively" vision bollocks anytime soon.

Isileth · Mar 25, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

The only argument against 7 heroes is that it would probably put an end to hench. Maybe make it exclusive to HM?

And whats the problem with that?
I hardly see how its an argument against at all really.

Gun Pierson · Mar 25, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Because you can't use "it doesn't apply to me" as an argument to get something?

Ok have it your way. Ofcourse it applies to me too in some way. I can't use the synergy builds when my friends are offline. I'm having lots of fun experimenting with those synergy builds. I guess I have to invite strangers in our guild again (tried it a few times, they left within days) who will never feel at home cause we're real life friends living within a few miles of eachother often sitting next to eachother when playing at one of our homes. I'm sure we're not the only players who're in this situation.

Jetdoc · Mar 25, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

But I don't see it coming AT ALL unless Anet drops the whole "People should play cooperatively" vision bollocks anytime soon.

Actually, I believe that A-Net's vision is that "people should be able to play cooperatively without having to join a guild to do so".

BlackSephir · Mar 25, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Oh, gee, when I saw the GW box and read about not having to play with real players I thought their visions was "play how the hell you want".

Cacheelma · Mar 25, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Oh, gee, when I saw the GW box and read about not having to play with real players I thought their visions was "play how the hell you want".

You and me both honey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Actually, I believe that A-Net's vision is that "people should be able to play cooperatively without having to join a guild to do so".

The bolded part doesn't really change anything (and you don't need a guild to play cooperatively).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Ok have it your way. Ofcourse it applies to me too in some way. I can't use the synergy builds when my friends are offline. I'm having lots of fun experimenting with those synergy builds. I guess I have to invite strangers in our guild again (tried it a few times, they left within days) who will never feel at home cause we're real life friends living within a few miles of eachother often sitting next to eachother when playing at one of our homes. I'm sure we're not the only players who're in this situation.

Oh please. Don't you get it? It's not about how you want to play with whatever synergic builds you come up with. It's about how YOU WANT TO DO IT WITHOUT OTHER PEOPLE that Anet doesn't want to happen. It sucks. I agree. But what can we do about it? I wish, too, that keep repeating myself over and over like this would change their vision. But it's been 3 YEARS.

Jetdoc · Mar 25, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

The bolded part doesn't really change anything (and you don't need a guild to play cooperatively).

It's not the bolded part. It's the words "be able to" that are the key.

Cacheelma · Mar 25, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

It's not the bolded part. It's the words "be able to" that are the key.

"....(and you don't need a guild to play cooperatively)."

Care to read through the end of the line?

As I said, if only repeating myself over and over could change something...

Abedeus · Mar 25, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

You and me both honey.

So that's three of us. I play GW only for HA/GvG, because in other online games (not FPS's) there is no such thing as a set number of players. Usually one team is on disadvantage because of lesser amount of people.

I really want 7 heroes... Just to be able to try Urgoz's Warren at least once.

Jetdoc · Mar 25, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

"....(and you don't need a guild to play cooperatively)."

I'd say for about 25% of the game, this is true. The other 75% of the game...it's neigh impossible without a 20+ minute wait forming a group. I believe that it is A-Net's concern that this 25% will rapidly decrease if 7 heroes were introduced to the game.

Whether that concern is valid (or not) is subject to debate.

Gun Pierson · Mar 25, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

But what can we do about it? it's been 3 YEARS.

Continue to voice our opinion maybe? Anet made the final decision pre Nightfall, the game changed.

Shadowlance. · Mar 25, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Yep - and I'll continue to voice my opinion too. They may have made a decision and said it was final, but I believe any decision can be reversed. They just need to know how many folks really want this and maybe they will relent.

I also rarely team up with human players. 3 heroes or 7 heroes won't change that. I'll continue to play GW with 3 heroes and 4 hench if I have to, but I would really enjoy trying out some synergies with a full team where I can control the builds. For me (and I know many others) this would breath some fresh life into GW while we wait for the sequel.

Dravyn · Mar 25, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Jetdoc..having 7 heroes isn't going to hurt PuGs because many of us refuse to PuG no matter how many heroes are available. Those that would use 7 heroes are the same people that will only H/H now.
I group with guildies/allies, and I play with my gf, and I H/H, but I will not now nor will I ever PuG, heroes or no.

Heroes, content, etc, had small impacts on PuGs. People had the greatest impact on them..the very people you all clamor that we socialize with. In short, most people suck, which is why I quit PuGing a long time ago, along with everyone else that won't PuG.

RiKio · Mar 25, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

On one hand, a 7 H/H would kill the cooperative spirit of the game, making it much more like an offline RPG.

But, on the other hand, PuGs are retarded.

These are the principal ideas of why 7 Heroes should or shouldn´t be implemented.

Magnus_1 · Mar 25, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I remember when I first started playing GW...

Nobody would have even DREAMED of bringing along henchmen into a group unless it was 3 AM and there was nobody else on the servers. People joined PuGs - some QQed, some had a good time. I stopped playing GW shortly after the release of EotN because I could never play with other people. The typical group became either a) 2 players and 6 heroes, or b) 1 player, 3 heroes, and 4 henchmen. People prided themselves on being able to do instances without other human players to help (heck, I finished most of Nightfall with H/H).

No longer an MMO in any sense of the word, I left GW to play... oh no, here it comes... World of Warcraft! *gasp*

There are some things I miss about GW - the tactical play, the fact that healing was enjoyable on my monk (WoW-style healbot FTL). However, I could not honestly tell myself that I was not bored with Guild Wars. I'm not sure how things have changed since I left, but the fact of the matter is - WoW is intensely social and I enjoy playing online with other people. I don't play online for a single-player experience. I know many of you will immediately say something about WoW being for kiddies, but having experienced both games for a good amount of time at this point, I would have to say that they are about the same in that regard.

Granted, WoW has its negatives and GW has its positives. Overall though, I truly can say that I enjoy playing WoW more than GW.

Anyways, I just wanted to chime in - I remember reading this thread shortly before I quit GW. There is a new patch coming out for WoW, and I had some time to kill so I thought I would check in on the state of the game here. All in all, I'm glad I left - ANet's creation was a beautiful thing back in the day, but I could never come back to the game GW has become. To each his own, but H/H is a game killer, in my opinion.

Farewell!

Jetdoc · Mar 25, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Jetdoc..having 7 heroes isn't going to hurt PuGs because many of us refuse to PuG no matter how many heroes are available. Those that would use 7 heroes are the same people that will only H/H now.

There are many, many pages of debate on this very issue in this thread. All I am saying in post is that the concern is likely on A-Net's mind...whether that concern is well founded, however, is subject to debate.